2011 Halo Reach MLG Equipment

[Brixxx]

http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/mlg/mlg-equipment/ - source


Halo: Reach

Pro Circuit Equipment

Console: Xbox 360
Switch: Netgear gs108
Monitor: Asus VH236H

Resolution: 1920�1080
Reference Level: Intermediate
VGA
Player Equipment/Illegal Equipment

Players may not use a Turbo controller, a Button Macro controller, a Wireless controller, or a Play and Charge Kit. Turbo controllers allow Players to press a button that results in their Character performing a set of actions that would normally require the Player to press the same button multiple times. Button Macro controllers allow Players to press a button that results in their Character performing a set of actions that would normally require the Player to press multiple buttons.

Players may not use a controller that has been modified in such a way that it alters their Character�s abilities and/or in-game mechanics. Players are allowed to make cosmetic changes to their controller. However, Major League Gaming reserves the right to deny the use of any controller suspected of providing an unfair competitive advantage.

Players and Coaches may not use a Wireless headset or a headset that requires an outlet for power.

[MidKnight]

i saw this on twitter, im looking forward to these new monitors! and hopefully some new Astros in the near future!

[Brixxx]

http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-VH236H-Inch-Widescreen-Monitor/dp/B002453K5G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1299311074&sr=8-1

Link to buy the monitor, pretty good price.

Release date was June 2009. I guess Acer and Samsung wouldn't budge on price.

[Brixxx]

Very surprised about the VGA part.

sarcasm ? VGA is wayyy better for gaming.

[Hylian]

I wonder if the Onza will be officially legal, as in announced.

[Brixxx]

Explain. A digital signal is much better than an analog signal in all aspects.

Less input lag, among other things.

Tried finding links explaining it but i cant find shit atm

[Justin21]

Acer h233h is way better

[Brixxx]

Reading a lot of links it may just be all opinion or personal preference or what monitor/HDTV youre using. I've always heard VGA is better for gaming so thats what i use. MLG most likely uses VGA because the Toslink optical cable plugs into the back of the Xbox 360 VGA cable then to the Astro mixamp. I'm pretty sure MLG has always used VGA, for halo atleast.

[Brixxx]

Acer h233h is way better

http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/asus-vh236h/4507-3174_7-33615002.html

http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-monitors/acer-h233h/4507-3174_7-33529135.html compare the two

They're pretty much identical.

Differences...

Asus has a 2ms response time Acer has a 5ms.

Acer has a 40000:1 contrast ratio. Asus has a 20000:1 contrast ratio.

Asus has .5 watts more power in speakers.

Acer takes 24 watts less power to be operational.

Trivial things besides the top two imo

Asus the better buy, just goin from specs.

[Smallz08]

ya the response time is probably what sold it for MLG. I am not knowledgeable in contrast ratio so which one is better?

[Brixxx]

Higher is better i.e. 40000:1 > 20000:1 but im not sure exactly what it does or means, colors and blacks probably look better is all.

Gameplay > Looks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrast_ratio

[Smallz08]

true that. I agree 100% with you. I have the h233h and I don't have any complaints about it so far now another question is the reference level what does that do?

[Brixxx]

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/906663

if you play on a monitor with vga (idk about hdmi) youll use intermediate

[pt ogre]

Explain. A digital signal is much better than an analog signal in all aspects.

MLG already has the setups to record/broadcast VGA and has been proven over the last 3 seasons.. why switch equipment?

[chris_cr33p]

canadian gym is right. i believe that they are doing that to save money so they dont need to buy 100 hdmi cables
and astros opti cable i think its called can only plug into the back of an A/V so yeah

[Vox]

The listed time of 2ms is gtg not bwb...on the acer it is 5ms bwb and 2ms gtg...so they are virtually the same in that aspect from all the tests I've seen...so better pricing and contrast ratio must have got em...

As far as the VGA vs HDMI thing...VGA bypasses the scaling issues that can be found between the xbox and HD TVs like the Viewsonic NX2232 they used for H3 (especially because H3 native resolution was not 720 or 480 or 1080 but actually ran at 640 for whatever reason)...but with a proper monitor (Like any of the ones listed.Asus.Acer.VX2260WM.etc) you don't have that problem...so with reach and these monitors HDMI>VGA because it is a true digital signal...

HOWEVER...they have the old Xboxs and run fiber optic cables to the mixamps...getting the old boxes to run fiber optic and HDMI requires another piece of hardware...or ripping apart the component/vga out piece so that it fits in the box along with the HDMI...but even then the xbox doesn't like to send both signals out and can take a few resets before it gets it straight...

Add to that the fact that they have all the necessary components to stream using VGA I can't imagine they would dump all that money on new boxes/new cables/whatever...when all it would do is produce MARGINALLY better picture through HDMI...

[Jewjitsu]

The listed time of 2ms is gtg not bwb...on the acer it is 5ms bwb and 2ms gtg...so they are virtually the same in that aspect from all the tests I've seen...so better pricing and contrast ratio must have got em...

As far as the VGA vs HDMI thing...VGA bypasses the scaling issues that can be found between the xbox and HD TVs like the Viewsonic NX2232 they used for H3 (especially because H3 native resolution was not 720 or 480 or 1080 but actually ran at 640 for whatever reason)...but with a proper monitor (Like any of the ones listed.Asus.Acer.VX2260WM.etc) you don't have that problem...so with reach and these monitors HDMI>VGA because it is a true digital signal...

HOWEVER...they have the old Xboxs and run fiber optic cables to the mixamps...getting the old boxes to run fiber optic and HDMI requires another piece of hardware...or ripping apart the component/vga out piece so that it fits in the box along with the HDMI...but even then the xbox doesn't like to send both signals out and can take a few resets before it gets it straight...

Add to that the fact that they have all the necessary components to stream using VGA I can't imagine they would dump all that money on new boxes/new cables/whatever...when all it would do is produce MARGINALLY better picture through HDMI...

exactly. hdmi would barely make a difference in picture quality, and they're not gonna buy all new equipment to stream when they already have the VGA streams which look/work perfectly fine. other than that, my friend has an asus vh226h with hdmi, and i can't play well on it at all, the input lag is messed up, and the colors are extremely inaccurate.

[Vox]

I run the Acer H233H w/HDMI and it works like a dream...
I kinda want the MLG one...just for giggles...but we will see...I'd like to have a 4 station setup downstairs...maybe I can pick up one of the NX2232s from Mr P and then have the new MLG monitor...

VX2260WM. NX2232. H233H. ASUS...
That would be sweet...

[Justin21]

The debate over VGA/HDMI just depends on the monitor, I used vga on my acer at first then switched to HDMI and it didnt have any affect on response time, and pictures was better

[Letthe]

Am I able to open my wired controller and remove the vibrating components?

[Letthe]

You planning on making something for you and your friends?

Yah yah.

[phreekopath]

The listed time of 2ms is gtg not bwb...on the acer it is 5ms bwb and 2ms gtg...so they are virtually the same in that aspect from all the tests I've seen...so better pricing and contrast ratio must have got em...

As far as the VGA vs HDMI thing...VGA bypasses the scaling issues that can be found between the xbox and HD TVs like the Viewsonic NX2232 they used for H3 (especially because H3 native resolution was not 720 or 480 or 1080 but actually ran at 640 for whatever reason)...but with a proper monitor (Like any of the ones listed.Asus.Acer.VX2260WM.etc) you don't have that problem...so with reach and these monitors HDMI>VGA because it is a true digital signal...

HOWEVER...they have the old Xboxs and run fiber optic cables to the mixamps...getting the old boxes to run fiber optic and HDMI requires another piece of hardware...or ripping apart the component/vga out piece so that it fits in the box along with the HDMI...but even then the xbox doesn't like to send both signals out and can take a few resets before it gets it straight...

Add to that the fact that they have all the necessary components to stream using VGA I can't imagine they would dump all that money on new boxes/new cables/whatever...when all it would do is produce MARGINALLY better picture through HDMI...

Being able to choose a hard-set resolution instead of just 720p, 1080i, 1080p, etc probably has a good bit to do with it... and i'm pretty sure all of their xboxes won't do hdmi, they probably have some first-gen's floating around there...

however, streaming from hdmi is exponentially cheaper than vga. I've looked into pure VGA capture and it's relatively expensive, most of the capture cards alone are $1000+... IMO, if MLG wanted to increase their streams then hdmi would be the cheaper alternative, even if you include having to buy the toslink cables for the 360's (which you can get for $3 on amazon any day of the week, and if you were going to buy 400 units, probably even cheaper)

This would give the viewers the option to switch between games instead of only having the ability to watch the "main stage" matchup...

[Vox]

The TOSlink cables they already have...but those older Xbox models cannot run HDMI and TOSlink simultaneously without extra hardware or ripping apart the little grey box from the xbox output...Even if streaming is cheaper with HDMI...I just don't see them spending any extra money whether that be buying the new slims or cables (Streaming or HDMI & TOSlink combo)

We can hope for next year...cause I would definitely like to see many matches streaming...not just main stage...good call on that one phreek...and the hard-set resolution thing is an interesting theory...but HDMI is 1920x1080...so what's the issue?

We can only wonder why MLG does the things they do...
Like putting element into V3... *sighs*



TO LETTHE:

Yes you can remove them...make sure to ground yourself when you take the controller apart and then pull on the little white tabs at the bottom of the circuit board...pull away from the board firm and steady...you may have to wiggle it a little but don't go crazy...put it back together minus those little vibe units and enjoy your SUPER LIGHT controller

[phreekopath]

Someone mentioned the scaling issues... that's the only reason i mentioned a hard-set resolution... just because a monitor says it will show 1080P just means it's capable, not that it truly runs at that resolution... when i sold tv's a few years back, there were many of them that were "1080 capable" but really only had 720 lines of resolution... the use of the term "1080P" has been abused by manufacturers and retailers before, but if you actually set something to a specific res, and the monitor can't handle it on a straight vga input, you get the "no input" or "incompatible signal" message on the screen... plus there's less chance of stretching, or fish-eye, and things like that monitor-wise, by using things like "fill screen" or "natural resolution" features... when you set a resolution like that, there's really no options that could tweak or distort the picture... putting the settings out like that i think is more for the users at home to have settings that will most closely match what they will see at an MLG event, even if they don't have the same exact brand/model equipment.

Also, about the streaming, I wasn't saying they should change what they have now, but in the future, HDMI streaming to ADD NEW/MORE STREAMS would be a much more cost effective option for MLG.

[phreekopath]

I was bored, and started looking more into this... and found some rather interesting information

According to wiki, input lag is mainly caused by using a non-native resolution... which means if your monitor can go up to 1920x1080, you should use it at 1920x1080, to keep lag lower.

Also, input lag is commonly referred to as the delay it takes to convert from an analog source to a digital (LCD, plasma, DLP, etc) display. To test for input lag, you can use a dual headed video card, a timer, a crt, your monitor, and a high speed digital camera... it's explained here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464 ... anyway ... By using a digital input into a digital display, you should effectively reduce the conversion time of the signal (or completely eliminate it), because it requires less processing.

By this logic... dvi or hdmi would be FASTER than the VGA, which appears to go against everything we've been told. Either way, the highest input lag recorded (per wiki) is 68 ms, equivalent to 3 or 4 frames on a 60hz signal. This was done on a large television, not a smaller monitor.

Most monitors seem to fall in the 10-20ms range. That should come out to about one frame on a 60hz signal. The average movie runs at 24 frames a second... tv runs at 30 (actually, 29.97)... so basically, you're losing about half of a single frame to lag. Mere thousandths of a second. If you blink, you'll miss more than what the lag is causing. Your reaction time isn't quick enough for it to make a difference anyway. The latency in your controller's cable is probably longer than the average LCD's input lag. Hell, the time it takes the light to travel from the screen to your eye is probably longer than the lag (unless you put your nose against the screen, ala FiS)

Either way, I believe the "input lag" issue is a moot point. Buy a quality monitor and you'll be fine. Besides, there's not that many real manufacturers of LCD screens out there, most brands buy parts from other makers and slap them in a pretty case. The internals of that Asus VH236H, the commonly referred to Acer H233H, and my personal Samsung are probably 80% (or more) the same internally.

[Vox]

Where have you been all my life? haha

I too find myself intrigued with weird things and spend far too long checking into them at random times...I guarantee that this VGA thing comes up again though...I've already briefly explained these things at least three times on this site alone...that's why I won't typically go crazy in-depth with these things...people on the MLG forums actually came in and wrote, "If HDMI were better that is what MLG would use, QFT."

Sighs...oh well...Very much enjoy your post Phreek...

[phreekopath]

Too bad I'm taken, Vox.

Seriously, though, there should be a subforum section, or at least a thread, based solely on long, drawn out, high-brow and purely informative posts. Hopefully, with a 500 character minimum post. Complete with a list of references. Unfortunately, intelligence, determination, and the time taken to research a subject are all virtues that are far too under valued in society today.

[Smallz08]

Too bad I'm taken, Vox.

Seriously, though, there should be a subforum section, or at least a thread, based solely on long, drawn out, high-brow and purely informative posts. Hopefully, with a 500 character minimum post. Complete with a list of references. Unfortunately, intelligence, determination, and the time taken to research a subject are all virtues that are far too under valued in society today.

You sir are my new favorite TLN member! I love researching random things! I just have not had that much time to actually do some research on this whole subject yet.

[phreekopath]

I said it before, and I'll say it again. I'm taken, fellas... lol

[flawedmr]

I got the acer h233h on sale at best buy for $120 2 weeks ago

[phreekopath]

I just wanted to tag this on...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=24-236-117&nm_mc=EMCPB-032011&cm_mmc=EMCPB-032011-_-PB031011-_-Item-_-24-236-117

The ASUS VH238H is most likely the exact same monitor, with the exact same internals, except with an LED light bar instead of a CCFL, which means better energy consumption, lower heat, and better contrast ratios, for just about the same price.

And it's in stock.

[ZSpencerA]

phreek is the man!

gt - Technism

[Havoc]

Thanks for the update!

[ShurikenGan]

i thought the mlg monitor was the acer h223h

[TLN Frost]

Why the switch from the amazing VS's to ASUS...wtf

[Rolo]

Why the switch from the amazing VS's to ASUS...wtf

ASUS is amazing also.

[heuer89]

Why the switch from the amazing VS's to ASUS...wtf

The ViewSonics weren't actually that great. Plus the ASUS vh236h actually let you play in Full HD rather than the ugliness that is the 16:10 ratio of 1680x1050...

[TLN Frost]

I personally prefer EVGA over ASUS =). However, I have a 42'' LG LED HDTV, soooo my TV pwns the monitor >_> :P

and VGA is yuck.

[boZ]

Hey guys i picked up an Asus VH238 Monitor (which appears to be virtually the same as the vh236h just with higher CR and its LED not LCD) and hooked it up with the 1920x1080 intermediate reference levels and a vga cable. Only problem is i'm getting a black bar down the right side of the screen vertically. I'm wondering if this can be corrected?

question phreek or anyone out there, i picked up this LED (VH238h Asus) and i'm getting a black bar down the right side of the screen. its set to 1920 x 1080 with a vga cable and intermediate reference level. Not sure whats causing it. since it is in fact the right resolution 16:9 i should be filling up the screen no problem.

[MichaelMongrel]

I find it interesting that it explains the reasons why some controllers are illegal... except the play n charge. I realize a wireless controller can be a pain, but when you take out the battery pack and just use the play n charge cord, it acts like a wired controller.

[boZ]

The ViewSonics weren't actually that great. Plus the ASUS vh236h actually let you play in Full HD rather than the ugliness that is the 16:10 ratio of 1680x1050...
The fact that the Asus is 1920x1080 has literally nothing to do with the Brand Asus. The resolution 1920x1080 is available from literally every vendor out there.

[Eamonn]

The fact that the Asus is 1920x1080 has literally nothing to do with the Brand Asus. The resolution 1920x1080 is available from literally every vendor out there.

The old MLG TV was 1680x1050 which makes it as 16:10 aspect ratio. Most video games are made for play on a 16:9 aspect ratio (same as 1920x1080). He was just saying that the Asus is a better choice than the old MLG TV.