The shady side of competitive gaming

[WobblyJackMcFruit]

Rather than ask my questions outright, I'm wondering if the mods and Mr P would allow a (hopefully) serious discussion about some of the aspects of competitive gaming which seem to be taboo subjects. The kind of things that everyone knows about but no-one seems to want to talk about. I'm talking mainly about what Frank Zappa usually referred to as simply "substances".

I did originally ask on mlgpro.com some time ago but the thread was deleted very quickly.

If the answer is no, that's cool and please delete this if you think it's inappropriate.

[chris_cr33p]

i am very confused about what this thread is asking

[cF WiNGER]

Sounds like you mean personal issues between players and teams? (ie: recent Twitter action between Lethul, Neighbor, Clutch on Neighbor leaving Impact) My opinion if this is the case, let it go. Even from reading some of the pros Twitter's, I can't help but think of how immature they are. If you have problems talk to each other in private, not broadcast it to the world. Makes yourself look bad in the end. If this is not what you meant then just ignore me lol.

[Eamonn]

You mentioned "substances" so I am assuming you are talking about Adderall.. pretty much it makes you focus a lot so tons of AM players and probably a few pro players take it during tournaments. I really don't see the point but I guess if people really think they need it its whatever.. No way MLG can really enforce a rule against it other than having cops search everyone before coming in (tons of people have tons in their backpacks and just sell it).

[Danimal04]

I get what your saying the problem is that your trying to hold an intelligent conversation about issues that you truly care about but inevitably the immature haters will come out and just start ruining it.... and in the process furthering your point even more.

[cF WiNGER]

@Eamonn
Wow didn't know, but makes sense. So that's the key the pros won't tell you if you pay for lessons...HAHAHA j/k

[Cpt Awesome]

my personal favorite is sundance not announcing where the next event is because someone asked him too much on twitter. grow up

[Gravity]

You mentioned "substances" so I am assuming you are talking about Adderall.. pretty much it makes you focus a lot so tons of AM players and probably a few pro players take it during tournaments. I really don't see the point but I guess if people really think they need it its whatever.. No way MLG can really enforce a rule against it other than having cops search everyone before coming in (tons of people have tons in their backpacks and just sell it).
Even with cops, they couldn't stop the use. It is regularly prescribed to people who have ADD, and there is no way to test for it because it is not a disease or illness, just a mental thing. Therefore, anyone can say they have it, and legally use adderall. I think it will just always be a part of gaming.

[Eamonn]

@Eamonn
Wow didn't know, but makes sense. So that's the key the pros won't tell you if you pay for lessons...HAHAHA j/k

I'm pretty sure most pros don't use it, but there are definitely a shit ton of AM players that do.. hell half my team at Dallas was on it 24/7 for 3 days straight.

If anyone remembers Max/Pro from 09, he actually collapsed on *featured station* due to being on too much adderall with no water or sleep.. he was Taken to the hospital and Dynasty had to forfeit the series *.

edit: ^I think that happened.. I remember tons of people talking about it.

[Joe Fries]

Some people take it and some don't, but it doesn't work for everyone. If you ask me, it is really all in your head. Sure, there are some increases in reflexes, and things like that, when people that are compatible with the drug take it, but I'm sure they wouldn't play any worse if they didn't have it, than Enable would if he didn't have his warm banana and OJ.

Basically it is a disgusting drug and it is sad that kids come into this league, and, believe that all the pros use it, then decide they should take it themselves. It doesn't make your shot superhuman and it doesn't make you the best player in the world. If you suck at halo and you take adderall, you will still suck. If you're great at halo and you take it, you will probably still be great, or you could be really bad, because it doesn't work for you. If that happens, then the effect is opposite and you turn into the ADHD kid that the drug is prescribed for.

[cF WiNGER]

@Joe Fries
Exactly. Some people it will have a nice effect on, but it's a drug just like any other drug. Some people will benefit from it some will not feel anything, and for some you could really hurt yourself short or long term. Plus you don't want to get addicted to anything like this. People use ADD as an excuse to get the drug, then they abuse the drug itself. MAYBE this is why the Top Pros are always the Top Pros...because they DON'T do this like what it seems like a majority of the AM teams do.

Edit: Not at all implying that you will be a Top Pro if you play without the drug lol

[WobblyJackMcFruit]

Sorry I wasn't more explicit in my original post but I wasn't sure what the mod reaction would be so I erred on the side of caution.

Yeah, I'm talking mainly about Adderall but I've also heard and read of harder drugs being used on the pro CS scene. Since this is (obviously) heading into the realms of illegality, I've often wondered what MLG's official position is on the use of alleged performance-enhancing drugs - maybe I've missed it but I can't find anything in the official rules and like I said before, no-one on the MLG forums seems to want to discuss it.

I'm not making any judgement at all, just wondering how widespread it is and what (if anything) is being done to prevent it.

[typica1]

Lethul "dude i finally got good pills" Neighbor "dude shut up were on stream".....( <-- that did actually happen and was broadcasted) more pro's take it than you realize. But as its stated above its all in your head. I see the benefits of people using it but honestly if you cant step up your own game and play at your best without substances then why compete?

IMO id say about 70% of pro's take it. Ive been around enough to get a good idea but that is a generalized guess. I give props to the pros who don't take it.

[MrChaosTheory]

I haven't heard about this before but the procedure is quite simple.

If what you say is true, based off of Joe Fries I assume there is some truth behind it, as he knows more about MLG then I will. I think it is in MLG's best interest to address it and address it quickly.

Sure the value or professionalism of MLG as a company may take some hits for allowing it to happen at all. The longer something like this goes on the harder it will be to address it. Yes, it is a company, however it has responsibilities to ensure the safety of all people who intend on competing. I am not saying pro's are, but if these AM players think their idols are doing it and it is part of their success, and nothing is said otherwise. Without addressing the situation, how do the younger AM players see it as a bad thing.

I think its important for the growth of the league as a competition platform, to move away from players doing anything to get a leg up on opponents. As MLG is one of the governing leagues within the USA. I think they should take the reigns and start driving the point home. I am not saying everything that give you an edge is seen as a bad thing, but when substance abuse is concerned there has to be a line drawn.

MLG needs to make it clear, address it in rules, address it publicly. Otherwise I will start attending events and slapping these kids.

[cF WiNGER]

If Pros didn't take these, I can see some thinking about it or maybe starting considering how Pool Play works now. Meaning the amount they play now and the play schedule itself.

[forefront]

Adderall MAY make you focus SLIGHTLY better. The problem is that it is highly addictive, and those who take it will find that they will no longer be able to do those same tasks without the aid of the drug. Sucks, but that's what you get for screwing with your body imo.

[MrChaosTheory]

Ex-pro gamer interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97haK12FNI8

This interview was in 2009, so I assume it was a while before then that this has been happening. With Pro-Gaming growing increasingly more popular, at least over two years later, and it hasn't been addressed I can only imagine the stage it is at now.

Unfortunately a lot of kids with ADHD often can't concentrate at school, so video games are any easy way to "keep them quiet" at home. So it obviously isn't/wouldn't be able to weed out the people who are prescribed or aren't. Also unfortunately MLG can't take the standpoint I have on these drugs.

[cF WiNGER]

Does anyone have a link for the interview? I tried to find it on G4's website, but had no luck.

[skillzy]

never heard of this before. kinda interesting, but I dont plan on taking any drugs that I dont need to. I'm above the influence :)

[Benjak]

My drug = Caffeine :) Gimme Red Bull and I will do work! But I don't think that there is a reason for people who don't need drugs to take them.

[AZUL]

I know some top pro players probably do take these and its unfortunate but if you think about it maybe its just the steroids of gaming? They just haven't banned them yet.

[MrChaosTheory]

Does anyone have a link for the interview? I tried to find it on G4's website, but had no luck.

It is right above your post...

[DaMuSiCFiEnD]

Personally I don't see a point for taking a drug to keep u awake. Learn to sleep well and good breakfast and that's good natural energy right there, give or take any caffeine product you like.

[ZeroCool]

This is a very interesting topic and I really didn't realize any of this was going on. Maybe it's cause I'm an old timer(27). I understand the need to want to be focused when your playing but I agree completely with Joe when he says it's mostly in your head. Also if MLG officials saw a bunch of kids at an event downing a bunch of pills on a regular basis before they game then MLG would say something against this. At least I hope they would

[cF WiNGER]

It is right above your post...

That is just a commercial for the episode. I was looking for the full interview.

[D Moralize]

This is a very interesting topic and I really didn't realize any of this was going on. Maybe it's cause I'm an old timer(27). I understand the need to want to be focused when your playing but I agree completely with Joe when he says it's mostly in your head. Also if MLG officials saw a bunch of kids at an event downing a bunch of pills on a regular basis before they game then MLG would say something against this. At least I hope they would

I don't think MLG has the authority to question you for taking pills. It's sad how popular the drugs is getting in the community, im curious does anyone know if it's popular outside of the FPS scene?

[cF WiNGER]

Very popular in college and now in high schools. Kid's say they use it for studying, which for many may very well be true. However, if it not prescribed to you, you should not take it. They are addicting. I know many friends who have and still do take them.

[WobblyJackMcFruit]

If MLG wants to promote competitive gaming and grow as an organisation, this is something that they need to address and I'm kinda surprised that they haven't already done so (or at least made an official statement). The more money comes into gaming, the more pressure players will feel to perform and the more likely it is that they'll turn to drugs to get "the edge". I don't think this is speculation, it WILL happen.

I absolutely disagree that MLG doesn't have the authority to police this kind of thing - they're both the organising and sanctioning body and they can do whatever they want, rules-wise. For example, they could say that only players over the age of 18 can compete and other than petition Sundance to change the rules, there's not much anyone could do. Don't like it? Play elsewhere (I'm not suggesting that MLG ban under-18s, I'm just using it as an example).

You realise that Red Bull is considered to be at least as harmful as alcohol in some countries (France for example)? I don't really agree with this because just about anything can be harmful in excess and where to draw the line is a debate that we probably don't want to have on TLN because it's completely subjective but the last thing that MLG needs is for some kid to have a heart attack on the main stage after washing down a handfull of Adderall with 10 cans of Red Bull.

You ain't no old-timer at 27. Comparitively speaking you're a young 'un, I'm 40 and I know of several enthusiastic recreational MLG-ers who are 50+. I feel that this admittedly tiny part of the MLG fan base has something to offer the community and not just from a killjoy, "you kids get off my lawn" perspective (Mr. P is obviously the most prominent and successful example). With this in mind, I'm just suggesting that the drug issue is the elephant in the room that MLG can't afford to ignore for much longer.

[D Moralize]

Just because they can dosen't mean they will is I guess what I meant, Banning a prescription drug and discriminating against the people using them. Even checking that anyone using it has a valid prescription seems like a violation of privacy, and I know MLG is a private organization and can do whatever they want but some things just seem unlikely to me.

[ASTRO]

Just saw a tweet from Clutch to Ninja:
CLUTCH_W35 Wes Price
@
@AgencyNinja Dont take addy next tournament and see how you play

In my opinion this is something people shouldnt bring up to twitter or any other network where the public may see it, but is really sad to hear that some pros take drugs like this ones.

p.s. Im guessing "addy" is the drug Aderall btw.

[Eclipse]

Just saw a tweet from Clutch to Ninja:
CLUTCH_W35 Wes Price
@
@AgencyNinja Dont take addy next tournament and see how you play

In my opinion this is something people shouldnt bring up to twitter or any other network where the public may see it, but is really sad to hear that some pros take drugs like this ones.

p.s. Im guessing "addy" is the drug Aderall btw.

Your guessing correctly, welcome to the forums.

[ASTRO]

Your guessing correctly, welcome to the forums.

Thanks, i've been here since Mr. P launched the site but never been a forum poster.

I have read in the MLG forums how people say that Ninja is one of the best players in Reach right now and how top teams should pick him up... but then find this thread and see that tweet just makes me go :(
However i hope this isnt true and i dont want to find about other pros using this sh*t too

[Eclipse]

Thanks, i've been here since Mr. P launched the site but never been a forum poster.

I have read in the MLG forums how people say that Ninja is one of the best players in Reach right now and how top teams should pick him up... but then find this thread and see that tweet just makes me go :(
However i hope this isnt true and i dont want to find about other pros using this sh*t too

The problem is he may be prescribed aderall for some form of ADD/ ADHD. It's the same problem with any other prescription drug that may help some one focus, or gain and advantage in some form, for any sport.

[Miiiklo]

Adderall's for bad kids.

[TinGodz]

If you ever watch Ninja's streams, he acts like he has ADD anyway. More than likely has a script.

[Gweedo888]

i take adderall well did for ADD when i had insurance and that stuff is no joke espacially the newer versions if you take it to focus and not cause you need it than you have a issue no one should mess with it to much and you can go comatos