Interesting Discussion on why esports may never be taken seriously

[bradsears]

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/hahvc/until_this_is_resolved_esports_will_never_be/

I don't agree with all the points but there is something here.

tl/dr
<snip>
"Man, Ryu is really hard to beat."

"What the fuck are you, 4800 BP rank C garbage? Step up your game before you complain"

or

"Geez, wouldn't it be cool if Queens were massive units to counter Forcefields?"

"Wouldn't it be cool if you shut the fuck up, Bronze League moron?"

No, I'm not rank C or in Bronze league, nor do I spend a lot of time complaining about balance or posting balance suggestions in forums. But spend a few days on GameFAQs, TeamLiquid, Steam Powered User Forums, or anywhere with a budding competitive gaming community, and you'll quickly learn that players who aren't in the top 2% of the skill curve aren't welcome at the discussion table."
</snip>

[D Moralize]

Good article, I agree with it for the most part, except I think part of the cause is that players and competitors are so close in e-sports, sure two low level players can gripe to each other, but I couldn't go up to some superstar athlete and tell them what they should be doing better or why they're sports sucks. Another part is that right now the only people who understand games and could enjoy watching them are the players themselves, this is finally starting to change though with people like Mr. P being exposed to halo and understanding it well enough t enjoy spectating without playing himself, and great casters like the sc2 guys that can keep you informed with not only what is going on in game, but why and they help you understand it. I thik the biggest thing e-sports needs to grow is just more people continuing to see it, I am a baseball fan and not a cricket fan only because thats what I was exposed to and the game that I understand.

[xMortyZx]

Simply put, e-sports will never become mainstream unless the competitive gaming community can get over itself and open a dialog with lower level players, hobbyists, and unskilled spectators. The average baseball fan can't throw a curveball. The average NASCAR fan would shit himself if he drove over 140 mph. Hell, half the world's soccer fans can't afford three meals a day, nevermind spare the energy to insult one another over what constitutes perfect goalkeeping. Yet despite the fanbases of these sports being almost universally non-competitive (or even non participating) audience members, sports are incredibly popular, if you haven't realized. Maybe part of that is that they've been around longer, but I'd bet part of it is that the average viewer is allowed to share his or her opinion without getting publicly humiliated by everyone in hearing distance.

Very well said. We're going no where if we can't get out of our on way!

[Gweedo888]

armchair qb thats really what it is until you do somthing or try it shut up but this was a really good read and i think Dmo had some good points :)

[TLN Frost]

100% right. Everyone's got an overenormous e-penis that they love to stroke, and crowd...if e-sports ie video gaming as a profession is to grow we have to drop the e-penis and develop professionally, and mature...by a large margin. Real athletes and professionals these days have autograph sessions, work in the community, etc. and actually care about the fan base instead of ridiculing others for what they may or may not know about the said sport and/or game...we have a long ways to go.

[Joe Fries]

Good thing The LAN Network is here to spearhead the "Nice" Movement. =)

[chris_cr33p]

yeah this article is very true

[pt ogre]

i don't believe this is at all the problem with "esports"

he uses one example that is "crazy", it's about football, and someone insulting another for not playing it

this happens all the time in high-level discussion forums, for both physical and electronic sports

he talks about teamliquid.net, shoryuken.com, testyourmight.com, and to a less extent, mlg.com, as places to be insulted for being a noob.. but it's because they are trying to discuss and analyze the highest level play possible, and a noob doesn't have a place in some of the discussions.

this is the exact same thing as something like hfboards.com.. many of the people there are also ex or current hockey players, and they discuss the highest level play, they analyze the game completely, and yes, they will insult each other for not knowing basic shit. both types of forums have the same kind of people, and both of them expect the same level of knowledge of the subject.

yes, it would be completely crazy at the water cooler at work for you to slap someone for not knowing the rules of football.. but it would also be equally crazy if your friend walked up to you and was like "hey i just got mortal kombat 9, how do i block??" and you slapped him.

these high level forums are not the water cooler. if you want to participate in them, you have to know your shit, or put the time in yourself to understand what is going on without having your hand held.

[TLN Frost]

At the same time, I have been around the MLG Halo scene since 2005 with Halo 2...and things were ridiculous. It was immaturity to the max, about things so fucking stupid like Gears of War better than Halo wut? threads. It's there regardless of whether or not it's because he's a "noob" that's how you get more followers, that's how your sport grows. You have to grow those noobs into pros, semi pros, etc. =) Without the "noobs" no sport would get anywhere. ever....Negative rep to hell and back, temp banned for weeks at a time, that was the norm for speaking your opinion, even if I was nice about it. Yeah it's come a bit of a way, but it hasn't come far at all.

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you should have to hold the hand of someone. I'm simply saying there are ways you go about some things, and the way it's gone about as of now, compared to back then is not a big step at all. I rarely even hit the MLG forums tbh, because of what I experienced when I did regularly visit them then. I caught so much shit for being a Carbon fan, until they won Nationals, beat the undefeated FB, etc. =/ but even after all of that I was still called a "Bandwagoner" even though I was rooting for them since the 1st event I watched.

I'm simply trying to say, you want your sport to get big, you want your sport to grow, the noobs is where it happens at. That's where your money comes from. They eventually grow, and foster into knowledgeable players, and the sort but that takes time, and the effort has to come from somewhere, and if it's a negative jerkwad then chances are that person is just going to not even pay attention to your league/sport. People aren't here to have a rough time from people giving them shit. They're here to try and learn, and have fun. They're not all here to go pro. You have to remember that.

[pt ogre]

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying you should have to hold the hand of someone.

I'm simply trying to say, you want your sport to get big, you want your sport to grow, the noobs is where it happens at. People aren't here to have a rough time from people giving them shit. They're here to try and learn, and have fun. They're not all here to go pro. You have to remember that.

those people don't belong in high-level discussions/theorycrafting, which is the primary focus of websites like SRK, TL, TYM.. MLG isn't all that high-level, to be honest.. but there are small pockets of that kind of discussion, and those people don't belong there either

though those websites do have sections catering to noobs, they are generally moderated pretty well, and are a "safe" environment.. they are again, not the focus of the websites and if you want to participate, you are expected to absorb freely available information yourself, before wading into the deep end

[Smallz08]

I agree with ogre. Some people that don't know what is going on needs to learn a little bit before they post in high level forums. I have been watching the MLG scene since I think 2008 or 2009 and I never posted in forums or anything but I did lurk and learned a lot from the discussions I have read and once I was knowledgable enough I found this website and have no problem posting here about team discussions and what team I think will do well in tourney's etc.

[coreyisdaffy]

Here's the thing guys, while us gamers don't like to classify ourselves as low level competitive it is true. Compared to MLB, NBA, and Soccer we are a small fish in a very LARGE ocean. We are going to get bashed for being "elitests" or not accepting of new players and things like that, but the issue is that our level of competitive is classified as more "down to earth".

Average Male, Age 23, Average Size, Intelligent and Athletic realizes he will NEVER in a million years make it to the NBA, because the odds are 1 Billion to 1. However, that same person also THINKS it'd be 1 Billion times easier to become a Pro Gamer then a Pro Basketball player...that's where we get the "elitest" remarks from. Everyone and their mother thinks its easy to become a Pro Gamer and do what they do.

The gap between fans of pro gaming and our pros and the gap between professional basketball plays and their fans is ENORMOUS, it's like trying to compare the length of Shaq's foot to the length of a new borns foot. We talk to "newbies" the way we do because they come into our community head strong and put in their opinion, honestly, most of the time in a "yeah I'm right" type of way.

Sports Forms and E-Sports forums run the same way, newer members are ostrasized constantly, but for some reason, us as the gamers get the bad rep...go figure lol. There is no difference in community other then size and publicity from Sports to E-Sports. If people are angry their getting yelled at I have a simple solution:

"READ the forums and WATCH the game before you post ANYTHING. If you're going to post an opinion on something as detailed as a sport or e-sport make sure you get basic facts and knowledge down first!"

Before I even posted about Halo way back in the day I'd watched tons of pro gameplay and read the forums every day before I was able to convince myself I knew enough to join in a discussion and edge myself into the possibility of an opinion.

No communtiy/group on the planet would put up with someone not knowing what their talking about, even a Book club will bash on you for not reading a "Must Read Classic", it's all over the place. Will Gaming become mainstream? YES, it is becoming bigger every day and it will only continue to grow, regardless of how "welcoming" the community is. If you have questions ask them, but not impose on a conversation with an unbacked opinion, that does not work in life why would it work on the internet?

The article was well written and addresses fears a lot of gamers and fans have about our SPORT, yes it's a damn sport lol. But honestly it won't matter, we get more and more fans every day, the more we advertise the more people will watch, read, learn, and become staples in the communtiy. We could have future MLG pro's reading over our responses right now knowing they must first Watch, Read, and Learn before they post or they will be frowned upon, UNLESS they want general info.

I've never seen a TLN or MLGPRO community member turn down a chance to educate members on gaming when they asked questions, we are very good at teaching and we are all willing to give kind words, maybe not play with the new players but at least give them a bump in the right direction.

Basically if you can't handle the fact that E-Sports is a community, like any other, with it's detailed disucssions that not ANYONE can come in on, and you can't watch and read our posts and gameplays before you post, or can't ask questions, then this may not be the community for you.

Us gamers are good people, we will teach new players, we will answer questions, we will provide, links, information, kind words, and bits of advice for future gaming stars, but like every other communtiy, we will not tolerate people thinking they know our community when they have not been a part of it.

/end BOOK