Protoss Discussion

[AntKeyyy]

My favorite race is Protoss and although I'm not that experienced, I do know most there is to know. Wanted to get a discussion on what you think about the race and see if anyone has any questions on how to build, counter, etc.

I've been having trouble finding the right counters and builds to start off using.

So, any protoss players, what are your main builds for PvP, PvT, PvZ? I'm assuming PvP is 4 gate rush lol.

[itwuzmagik]

I'll tell you my 3 main builds right now (4 really) and how they work. :)
For PvP I either 3 Gate Robo or 4 gate. If i scout early that they are doing everything standard I do likewise. If i scout they take a second gas around 25-26 food then they are not 3 gate roboing. I try to make my PvP early game be entirely in my favor. Mostly to make sure they can't get that second gas when i have 22 food i do a gas steal and just prolong a good 3 gate. Then i go 3 gate robo and try to out micro them :) if i see in my initial scout that they have 2 gateways up and no cyber (which means zealot rush also they would have no gas) then I pump sentrys and stalkers and just do a 3 gate robo. If i spot no second gas i usually just 4 gate and try to out micro :) cause I <3 4 gate.
For PvT (MY LEAST FAVORITE) I really have trouble with this one. I usually don't lose unless they have a really good micro and 1-1-1 me and out micro me. If however i scout the 1-1-1 then i well do a 3 gate robo and pop two Observers one for my base and one for theirs. Then I pump a few zealots 2-3 sentries and also 2-3 immortals. This is pretty much a 3 gate robo but you have to make sure you have immortals for their siege tech and some observers for those cloak banshees also if you hold off their initial rush it is best to put a forward pylon and be aggressive and also drop a forge for some upgrades and cannons for your mineral line. Honestly if you don't scout 1-1-1 it is really easy to beat almost anything the terran does with a simple 4 gate :) because you can transition really easily out of it. Its important though to put on early aggression and a very aggressive pylon near their ramp in order for you to do a good amount of damage.
PvZ :) my fav. (for the most part, I do however HATE Muta's) In pvz scouting is very very important. Always make sure you don't see an early pool, anything under 14 food is considered early. If you see that you either are gonna have to do a wall with enough space to hold a zealot in (or a probe if they six pool) and get some sentries and stalkers. If you scout and early pool it is either best to go 2 or 3 gate into StarGate pump a Vray and a phoenix out and push with w/e you have lift the Z's queen with your Phoenix and soon after you should get a GG make sure you destroy his spire if he tries to transition. :) If he plays more standard just make sure when you scout if he goes 15 hatch and pool or something that you are at his Nat ready to hold off his hatch with your drone. A good pylon can delay for awhile :). Also if he does do a 14 pool you know he is probably either going roach ling all in or at least muta's. I haven't seen too much of the hydra's lately but your stalkers can counter that easy with some sentry FF's and good micro. Blink stalkers> Roach/hydra any day :)
I hope this helps and if you need the exact build times check out the liquid forums most of the builds i use can be found their :)

[shrEd Gein]

^^^ Cant stop the flock :)

[AntKeyyy]

Haha, damn Magik. I usually wouldn't risk the 3 gate robo against a Protoss cuz it's always a 4 gate rush against each other, or something along those lines. The only other build I can think of is the 3 stalker robo. Which seems like you do, kindof.

PvZ, the "best" build out right now is Forge Fast Expand. According to like all pros, it sets you up for a better meta-game meaning you could do you're void rays more effectively and etc.

And yes, I agree with you on the 4gate against terran.

IMO

[itwuzmagik]

Haha, damn Magik. I usually wouldn't risk the 3 gate robo against a Protoss cuz it's always a 4 gate rush against each other, or something along those lines. The only other build I can think of is the 3 stalker robo. Which seems like you do, kindof.

PvZ, the "best" build out right now is Forge Fast Expand. According to like all pros, it sets you up for a better meta-game meaning you could do you're void rays more effectively and etc.

And yes, I agree with you on the 4gate against terran.

IMO

3 gate is the best counter to the 4 gate rush here is why. Your first zealot is out when his is and so is your second and third stalker. So when you you get this you scout for the pylons and kill his forward probe/pylon then you lay your robo down and by the time he can rush you have immortal. GG ;) and yes the forge FE is very good :) i use it unless my nats ramp is big or exposed and he is 6pooling

[Antidote]

Haha, damn Magik. I usually wouldn't risk the 3 gate robo against a Protoss cuz it's always a 4 gate rush against each other, or something along those lines. The only other build I can think of is the 3 stalker robo. Which seems like you do, kindof.

PvZ, the "best" build out right now is Forge Fast Expand. According to like all pros, it sets you up for a better meta-game meaning you could do you're void rays more effectively and etc.

And yes, I agree with you on the 4gate against terran.

IMO


At higher tiers the only way to beat a 4 gate is with another 4 gate. But unless you're playing at masters level you won't see people with the proper control to execute it flawlessly.

[Araneatrox]

Magik speaks the truth, 3 gate robo destroys 4 gate unless he goes for very very fast chragelots, and that is stupid.

You can get 1 immortal out before the enemy starts their attack and that just destroys all stalkers in the entire map. But Against toss i like to rush Infestors and then get a load of lings. The only way i have found to hard counter it is with Obs + Feedback Templar. But you would need to metagame me pretty hard to do that. Remember Templars are better against Zerg than Collosus.

[Eclipse]

So here are a few of my builds that i have been working on, i like to have some fun while playing, but like knowing weird builds.

PvP, right now i have two builds.

1st is the 11 gate press, into w/e.(people with bad micro will die really fast.)

Note: you will have to stop probe production a few times, just so the timing of everything works.

9: pylon
11: Gateway (DO NOT use chrono-boost on you 10 supply probe)
14: assimilator
14/15: pylon
15:cyber core
16:zealot
20: Warp Gate tech, 1 Stalker
23: 2x Gateways
23: 2nd assimilator(Do not mine, this is precautionary, it trick your opponent thinking your teching more, but you are not)
24:Pylon in your base.
@75% wg finished make a proxy near your opponents base
@100% WG warp 3 stalkers at proxy


Now to make this work you need to send your 1st zealot out scouting for any proxy pylons your opponent may make.when your 1st stalker is finished start pushing towards his base

When you plant the First proxy make it close enough to easily allow you to warp in and reinforce quickly. If you can get up the ramp make a proxy at the base, so you can warp in above the ramp. At this point you should try to find out what he is going for, while trying to take out as many probes as possible.

And your warpins should be this 3stalkers, then 3 zealots, then 3 stalkers.


2nd build is 3 gate robo, unlike magiks.

9: pylon
12/13: Gateway
14 assimilator
16 pylon
17 cyber core
18 zealot
21 assimiliator (mine with 2 probes at first, and your current building probe should go to the assimilator)
25: 2x Gateways

@100% cyber core you should have about 150 gas, first make Robo, then WG, reason why is you can chrono boost WG tech
@ next 100 gas make a sentry
@100% robo make an observer

* most people i play against this build either try to go for a fast blink stalker push, 4 gate, or 3 gate robo(usually with a later robo).

the nice thing about this build is you can get a immortal up really quick to defend against any kind of blink stalker rush. I have even used this build against Terran, with a switch to a zealot sentry drop for the early game.


And here are a few tips

Warp Prisms are one of the best units to have in your arsenal. with proper control, you can abuse people who get units that can't shoot up. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yw9r2jCuIHA&feature=related

[AntKeyyy]

3 stalker rush is just a new build i learnt from artosis's stream, its a cool counter to 4 gate if u can do it right, its basically a 3 gate robo but you get stalkers first and prob a little bit different build order

[itwuzmagik]

Magik speaks the truth, 3 gate robo destroys 4 gate unless he goes for very very fast chragelots, and that is stupid.

You can get 1 immortal out before the enemy starts their attack and that just destroys all stalkers in the entire map. But Against toss i like to rush Infestors and then get a load of lings. The only way i have found to hard counter it is with Obs + Feedback Templar. But you would need to metagame me pretty hard to do that. Remember Templars are better against Zerg than Collosus.

yes 3 gate does destroy b/c when I go PvP and i forgot to mention this you always get immortal first when you are doing PvP when you 3gate robo a Terran you get obs first then your immortals. :) but fast chargelots are dumb b/c you can use ff's and chokes to make them useless :)

[Eclipse]

Magik speaks the truth, 3 gate robo destroys 4 gate unless he goes for very very fast chragelots, and that is stupid.

You can get 1 immortal out before the enemy starts their attack and that just destroys all stalkers in the entire map. But Against toss i like to rush Infestors and then get a load of lings. The only way i have found to hard counter it is with Obs + Feedback Templar. But you would need to metagame me pretty hard to do that. Remember Templars are better against Zerg than Collosus.

Here are some pros and cons for Colossus vs High Templar(w/ storm)

Colossus:
Pros: walk up cliffs, massive unit, decent AoE
Cons: Cost, and time to create*

High Templar
Pros: Feedback, Storm for good AoE, morphs into archon, Cost
Con: Weak, Micro necessary attack.

Why cost is the big factor. Colossus take about 1min to make, while you can warp in High Templar at any pylon instantly.
On top of that get colossus seems to me, kind of out of the way, it takes so much time and money to make them usefully that by the time you get them out your opponent has killed you by then. While on the other hand you have the High Templar, which for the most part is very easy for a Protoss player to get, for 1 main reason. Most Protoss player will have to get a Twilight council, at some point in the game. For most opponents when they see this they wont think about "your getting High templar, how do i counter this at the time being?", they will think your teching to either blink stalker, DT, Chargelots,+2 upgrades, or High templar(note i put them in order of most likely thought process)

[AntKeyyy]

You need to charge high templars and they waste warps on other basic units such as stalkers. If you had a robo going you could get a bigger army out faster, plus the colossus have massive range with upgrade. you're just underestimating them

[chris_cr33p]

Protoss is the best race in the world!! <3

[Eclipse]

You need to charge high templars and they waste warps on other basic units such as stalkers. If you had a robo going you could get a bigger army out faster, plus the colossus have massive range with upgrade. you're just underestimating them

yes, and no to this. Yes they waste available warp ins for other units, but due to the low cost of HT 50min 150gas, this allows you to build more Gate ways in the first place, for example most people that play with a general mix of units will tend to have 4 Gateways per base, but with my experience i can afford to have 6-7 Gates per Base, and not worry about it be coming a useless Gate way, due to the fact that if I choose to warp in HT i make Zealots(w/ charge). I feel that this type of play can deal with almost any basic match up, but maybe not PvP

[itwuzmagik]

I now do only pretty much one build against terran (it works almost 98%) lmao its a 3 gate FE. It's a good build b/c if you scout that he is doing early aggression you can't just ad a second gas and instead of making the expand you can drop a robo and a robobay and get some immortal collsi coming to deal with it and make him either gg or back off so you can expand.